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But data shows that women, particularly women executives, are experiencing the highest levels of exhaustion, with much of it being linked to not only the extra tasks they take on at home, but also at work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"805d4eaed0d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d124f35f39d6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"From overseeing initiatives that support employee well-being, to leading efforts around diversity recruitment, and spearheading events for employee resource groups (ERGs), studies show that women leaders are more likely than men to step up to the plate for informal leadership roles at work. In fact, in 2021, senior-level women were twice as likely as senior-level men to spend a substantial amount of time on DEI work that falls outside of their formal job title, according to LeanIn.org and McKinsey & Company's "},{"_key":"1dd175f7fa5a","_type":"span","marks":["87a6c6529b6c"],"text":"Women in the Workplace report"},{"_key":"77c640891a61","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". As a result, more than half of women managers reported being burned out due to juggling extra responsibilities."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"87a6c6529b6c","_type":"link","href":"https://womenintheworkplace.com"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"317d805c2359","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a23030fc97bb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"You have to look at what's on your plate and be realistic about the commitment you can make and try not to overcommit,\" Chief Member Sandra Greer-Sanders, Vice President of DEI and Talent Development at NAF, says. As an executive who helped to start her company's first ERG for women, Greer-Sanders warns about the time commitment needed when leading additional initiatives. That's why, she says in order to avoid burnout, it's imperative for leaders to set boundaries around what they say \"yes\" to, and it's important that they receive the recognition and support needed when taking on these tasks that help drive company culture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4b0b6a5934aa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d95f06580a36","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Understand the Cost of Saying \"Yes\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"sectionHeader"},{"_key":"fe34a2439ee6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd87036607ab","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Before diving into an informal leadership role that's outside of your formal job description, executive and leadership coach Gilly Weinstein says it's critical for leaders to ask themselves, \"What is this going to cost me in terms of time, energy, mental bandwidth, and emotional bandwidth?\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7de4c7cc9333","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f84d92d659e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Be very clear with yourself about everything you have going on in life right now,\" Weinstein says. \"Whether it's caring for an elderly parent, a child that you have to homeschool, or direct reports who are on the verge of burnout, ask yourself, 'In light of everything that's happening right now, is this okay?'\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f2bcb7459015","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24e98f9a24ca","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"If the answer is \"yes,\" then Weinstein says you should then find other members on your team to support you. \"Don't ever go into something like this as the hero, or as someone who knows how to do it all herself,\" she says. Instead, she suggests reaching out to colleagues who are also passionate about the project or initiative you're leading and ask them to help you by dividing up some of the tasks."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d9051634ecfb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"573de717bdf8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For Greer-Sanders, she says creating a team of other like-minded women is key to ensuring that her company's first ERG group is successful. \"We have three women who have all said, 'I'm in to support,'\" she says. \"That makes my job a lot easier because I have this extension, if you will, of individuals who are all in. And, we have decided what all in looks like and what is manageable.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a1c096e3d8ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8c072e0fe5e2","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Make Your Impact Known"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"sectionHeader"},{"_key":"224b04970208","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98af8d246fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Despite nearly 70% of companies saying the work employees do to promote DEI is critical, "},{"_key":"c51496684c19","_type":"span","marks":["7c618131218d"],"text":"data shows"},{"_key":"04741c8b819e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" that much of this work is still being swept under the rug in performance reviews. That's why, Rachel Bouman, CEO and executive coach at The Leadership Companion, says it's important for executives to share the impact they're having when they step up to lead new tasks."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"7c618131218d","_type":"link","href":"https://www.mckinsey.com/featured-insights/diversity-and-inclusion/women-in-the-workplace"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"744830b7debf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ee897e76f7e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"I think it's always good to show yourself as a well-rounded person because it shows that you're more than just your job description,\" she says. \"You're doing a lot to drive the bottom line of the company. You care about the people and I think any time that you have an opportunity to allow that to shine, it's worth it.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"eb94c5194cbb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c20e147c8894","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Weinstein adds that sharing insight about your additional leadership work to your CEO or direct boss is not only important in helping them to understand your overall value to the company, but it also helps them to understand and better support the initiative you're leading."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e76fca9ff67a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69b338b83bf9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Being cognizant of the impact that you have, even when it's something that's not quantifiable, and being able to weave that into the fullness of who you are as an executive is part of being self-aware because you're saying, 'I did these things and I know that it boosted morale,'\" she says."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"supportingContent":[{"_key":"f2fff3164c17","_type":"nextUpFeatured","article":{"_id":"6898e932-2c69-4469-8d9d-f2767789bb2b","_type":"editorial","_rev":"HVao7AivMXTNTMm8II6DL0","_createdAt":"2022-01-25T23:05:47Z","_updatedAt":"2026-04-02T13:41:17Z","articleAuthor":{"_id":"a5a6ea15-0332-483a-ae2e-c10f37380ad3","_type":"author","_rev":"8avhgfh23lvfLBQBV5e9ZN","_createdAt":"2022-12-16T14:24:04Z","_updatedAt":"2022-12-16T14:24:04Z","bio":[{"_key":"aa21e7907306","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f43118fc236a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Testing author bio"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"name":"New Author QA","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"new-author-qa"},"id":"-6f3d2581-90d5-5712-953e-883bcc3850c5","children":[],"parent":null},"byline":"Courtney Connley","category":"EXECUTIVE IMPACT","content":[{"_key":"6ab18c7028fc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a6e77a002807","_type":"span","marks":["strong","em"],"text":"Listen to "},{"_key":"339b9cdb5843","_type":"span","marks":["strong","em","3d277a05c1a4"],"text":"\"The New Rules of Business\""},{"_key":"1a3054f50d75","_type":"span","marks":["strong","em"],"text":" by Chief and follow wherever you get your podcasts."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"3d277a05c1a4","_type":"link","href":"https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-new-rules-of-business/id1591963543"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"57e92a83e970","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a70da59ad96b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The pandemic has brought about major changes to the way we work, including long-term hybrid workplaces and increased commitments to diversity and inclusion. 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So [while] being at home, they weren't experiencing it as much because it was really about the work,\" Harts says, while pointing to a study that shows more than 50% of Black employees felt like they didn't belong at their company until they worked from home. \"Now that we know this information, what do we need to be asking our Black women, or our brown women, or women who are over 50, or mothers or caretakers: What are the questions that we need to ask to make sure that they feel seen, heard, and supported returning back to [the office], whatever that might mean?\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f93ac5662495","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2be407ad3190","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Later in the episode, Harvard Business Professor Frances Frei and researcher Anne Morriss return to the podcast to talk to Carolyn and Lindsay about the benefits of remote work and how leaders can fairly measure performance to ensure all employees are accurately 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I’m Carolyn Childers."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"334bc6116c78","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4a2067ae4b5c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"08522fea77de","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bf468178ab1a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And I’m Lindsay Kaplan, and we’re the Co-Founders of Chief, the network of the most powerful women in business."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8250e369e75d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06ebfafd3d780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"704daf4aa9ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f25e358adafa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Each episode, we unravel complex business trends and challenge preconceived notions of leadership. And the question we’re exploring today is… when will corporate America start seeing DEI as more than just a buzzword? How far are we really willing to go to achieve equity?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f1b8cd30983e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"32dae4bd3a930","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a65328c66696","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"471725dbd5a50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Because it feels like a lot of companies are feeling pretty self-satisfied with their social justice statements and DEI programs — but are those same companies thinking about the greatest threat that’s coming for their DEI initiatives?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2c85a0c0efef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a20105f8b150","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"14b79a2e5bdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d5972802680d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Of course you’re talking about the impending Supreme Court decision on affirmative action — which looks very likely to become overturned in the next few months. And if you’re thinking, “What does banning affirmative action in higher ed have to do with business?!!” Let me just say, a lot…. as today’s guest is going to make very clear."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d929b20f9afb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64fc4c2ada970","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8b3240a182e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"54651ecd6ba40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Crystal clear! This episode features the one and only Dr. Khiara Bridges — take it away CC!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"36e147e980bf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"00dec5d0893f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1264eed5e79b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"21c31eae2d040","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We're joined today by Dr. Khiara Bridges. Dr. Khiara Bridges is a professor of law at UC Berkeley, who researches the intersection of race, class, and reproductive rights. Thanks for joining us, Khiara."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"943a0dde4eea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e8e7c47ac250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"87facc2f53d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a03e36c940b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Thank you for having me. I'm excited."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4a1703701de5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4fe438c4f49a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8bd0e0cfadfe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d0cf4fe5fab10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah. So we have a lot to cover today. So many topics. 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I think it's one of those events that confound societal dichotomies, the dichotomy between self and other, the dichotomy between one and two, the dichotomy between sacred and profane. So I was very interested in investigating how the law just treats the event of pregnancy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2e03968b3b90","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a5ab2c4f829d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And I've always been interested in race. I think that's a product of my upbringing. I grew up in a very privileged suburb of Miami, in which I was only one of very few non-white people in all of my schools, my middle school and my high school. So race has always been incredibly salient to me. So I figured out a way to combine all of those interests, studying race, health, pregnancy, and as they all intersect and are regulated by the law."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8f38b6d80ad9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"48f24b17d2c40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0532caeffc83","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1bb67e5309c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah. Well, the world is better for it, for you to be focusing in this place. But before we launch into affirmative action, I do want to talk about your work on reproductive rights. As a co-founder of an organization like Chief, I care deeply about protecting bodily autonomy and access to healthcare. And I'm curious, as you were at the Senate hearing for Roe in particular, what were you hoping to achieve?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"79f0fc9a082f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d7911daeea660","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"42a06ac9ee5b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f0fd8d308e470","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was hoping to just enter into the record basic facts that I felt have not been amplified as much as they should. I think it's important for all people to be able to control what happens to their bodies. I think that the ability to control whether or not you will give birth controls the content and the trajectory of your life."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5797650d8d12","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5620fbf79fbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But living in the United States, a country in which we have various inequalities, including inequalities on the lines of race and class, I thought it was incredibly important for us to recognize that the reversal of Roe will be devastating to unprivileged people, people of color, poor people. They're going to be the ones who are unable to navigate this country, in which now there are some states in which you can have some semblance of reproductive autonomy. And there are some states, you simply don't have that ability."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ecae252a99dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9dcac99ec8f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So this is a racial justice issue, right? It's not just a matter of misogyny. It's certainly that. It's not just a matter of patriarchy. It's certainly that. But this is also a form of racial control. I can tell you stories about the history of the U.S. in which people of color have been regulated and oppressed on the basis of their reproductive capacities. So this is just the newest iteration of that long trajectory, that long history of controlling communities, controlling people through their reproductive capacity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dc7926ddabee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2e5d023b79a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So that's what I wanted to accomplish at the Senate hearing. It was successful in that regard. I think a lot of people paid attention to a particular part of that hearing. But I'm also really happy that I had an opportunity to elevate and make visible trans people, non-binary people. They are also impacted by reproductive oppression, reproductive control. So all in all, it was a successful time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"45304720e98f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7a7a8830a4aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b01be8f0b4dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ca43882dc81f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You're talking specifically about your very viral interaction with Senator Josh Hawley during the hearing. We’ll play a short clip of that now."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f8c16adcea4d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af70ab6d05070","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"(Clip from Senate Hearing)"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b570e0c2b0be","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"48e3b8e74e160","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Dr. Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ed169e8859cb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8e01e67cd9c90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Denying that trans people exist and pretending not to know that they exist is dangerous."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c8494ea83712","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9214791850170","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Senator Josh Hawley:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"18e72d536120","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec2ce46c6d7d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I'm denying that trans people exist by asking you if you're talking about women having pregnancies?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3fdf0f5e1b99","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fd579cd9c4d00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Dr. Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"355c20d9ce32","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea7d2bf22efd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Are you? Are you? Are You?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dae6571a1d30","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a757fba50ed0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Senator Josh Hawley:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4431d59f7aa1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a136f06f08f20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Do you believe that men can get pregnant?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8b9b31f7cd24","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"62ae11ac7d9b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Senator Josh Hawley:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8e8118d67c30","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9ee66df2debe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"No, I do not believe that…"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"600608fe292b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7f0b9ffbdb850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Dr. Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a9ea9aae4762","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cf84b5d0c7fd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Then you’re denying that trans people exist!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"245fae52d2f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08d045ee4efa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"(End Clip from Senate Hearing)"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"10d16dd68b84","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cdb553268ac00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers: How do you feel about that moment and the attention that it got? Do you think it helped further the reason that you wanted to be there?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"331621b5e338","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2528fba5f8730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0a9d07f40e94","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"498f1716f9cd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Well, I think that it's so easy in this present socio political moment to ignore the most marginalized and to get wins. We get wins by centering the most privileged. So centering cis women, who now are unable to purchase abortion services that they want in the marketplace, right? That's kind of politically acceptable. It's politically understandable. It might even be politically wise to center those people."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"41ff57545ac1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e9bd587532ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But the problem is that when we get wins by centering those with the most privilege, after we get those wins, we leave behind everybody else. We leave behind trans-masculine people. We leave behind non-binary people. We leave behind poor people, people of color, undocumented people, people with disabilities."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a5351ca4dd0e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f5cab88da450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I think that as we go about navigating this post-Roe world, as we go about fighting for legislative wins, fighting perhaps for wins in the court, I think it's important for us to center in our advocacy those who are not usually centered because they are not sympathetic, because it's easier to get that swing voter in Ohio if we ignore certain populations. I think it's important for those folks to be in our advocacy, because if they win, we all win. If trans-masculine people win, cis women undoubtedly win. So I think that we ought to keep that in mind as we sort of go forward in this post-Roe world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3e380f4127b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3ab442feca690","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4abc7f872b3b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95cd4b0254360","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So since the reversal. What else do you think we should all be focusing on next to keep fighting this fight of reproductive rights for women and people with the capacity for pregnancy?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3f7e1f54ed83","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"37f3bc19f2980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7c4db895f092","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"79f97fd15ae30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We are deluding ourselves if we believe that this is the end. I think that we're diluting ourselves if we think that once Roe is reversed, then all those forces that's interested in returning this country to a period of time that kind of only exists in our imaginations and our fantasies... And I'm specifically referring to a period of time in which all people with uteruses were women, all women aspired towards marriage and becoming wives, all wives, inevitably, were mothers, and all mothers were self-sacrificing, had no other desires in their world but to raise these children and have as many children as they possibly could, right? While being supported by the husband who went out and made the money, brought the bread home, and then to be cooked by the wife, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"be6d2f43f0ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ab063bbaa8d50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This is also a period of time in which LGBTQ people were either erased, right? Trans people just did not exist. But also, gay people, lesbians could be punished, could be criminalized, could be thrown in jail for their behaviors, sexual or otherwise."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0f56c152dc7d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3ccc8fb9cc260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This is also a period of time when our borders were closed. Very selective, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ac465a372d92","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"580251efc0dc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This is a fantasy of a country that we've never actually really been, but there's a very strong current in our country today that's just looking to move us back to that time. So like I said, I think we're diluting ourselves if we think that the reversal of Roe is just the end, the stopping point. There are a whole lot of other things that need to be accomplished in order to move our country back to a time that we thought we had moved beyond."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"875d9b14ca0d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f41b4b90257a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3b0a7cc4ff04","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5442731a82300","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Right, that makes a lot of sense. And clearly, overturning Roe isn’t the end since now, we are looking at a potential affirmative action ban on the very near horizon. Can you walk us through a bit of the context and history of this policy?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"deb1642ab8dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"454052d834e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"747d2bc47f36","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d9cf3ed9bb950","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah. It's so important to tell an origin story about affirmative action, because I think a lot of people kind of encounter affirmative action and it's just hiring practices today and admissions practices today. But in reality, affirmative action is a product of the demands that activists made during the Civil Rights Movement."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"56c775a40364","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"18c9bb5d7a210","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the 1950s and 1960s, right, people took to the streets in the largest social movement that this country has ever seen, and black people and their allies demanded full citizenship. So they demanded formal equality, right? Equality under law. And they won, right? They won some significant gains. After the sit-ins, after the freedom rides, after the protests and the marches, the country capitulated and the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was passed, the Voting Rights Act of 1965 was passed, and so we entered into this era of formal equality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5493ada6c181","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b92e781842960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Affirmative action was a part of those sort of radical changes in American society. Specifically, Richard Nixon was the president who first advocated for affirmative action in federal hiring. The idea here was that there were entrenched inequalities, there were vast and deep and persisting inequalities that ran along class lines, but because class and race follow each other closely in this country, mired people of color in poverty. So affirmative action was a technique by which black people could experience economic mobility. So it was a plan to achieve racial justice, right? It was an effort to remedy past societal discrimination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"98b7378fd714","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a07f424e59a40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So it's really important to keep that in mind because in 2022, we talk about affirmative action very differently. We talk about affirmative action as a means by which we can create diverse workplaces and racially heterogeneous classrooms. And certainly that is true, but I think that we miss a very important part of the story when we ignore the origins and social justice, when we ignore the fact that affirmative action might be a means by which we can address historical racial inequality and how that inequality persists today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d105072d22c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6370561dcdc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d4a02345a8f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb430cc832ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"What do you think has been achieved through these policies? And on the other hand, there have been several states that have already done bans on affirmative action, and so what was the result of taking those away?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e60ae5d4c08d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"026099f545820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e96bffe43f32","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a379a2f983890","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When you say what has been achieved through affirmative action, I think very personally of my family. Both my grandmothers were maids and both of my grandfathers were janitors. Never saw a high school graduation, right? They lived in the Jim Crow South. So I'm a law professor today. I have a PhD and a JD. My brother has an MD, my sister has an MBA. How could it be that the grandchildren of maids and janitors could achieve these things today? It's through affirmative action, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"63152f706aca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a8baf9fa4c10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My parents, who grew up in housing projects in Miami, were the beneficiaries of affirmative action. My mother went to Florida State University. They were able to go to schools because those schools were interested in remedying historical discrimination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4ccc978771ce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6aafe1a557240","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My father got jobs, he was hired, he got positions because those companies were interested in remedying historical discrimination, such that I could grow up solidly middle class. I've already said I grew up in a very white suburb in Miami, so that I was able to accrue the indicia of merit that we have in this country. I had incredibly high SAT scores. I had a million AP classes. I did all those things that you're supposed to do in order to be meritorious. I was a cheerleader for God's sakes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2df94b73220b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1993101770810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So because of affirmative action, I can sit here today and tell you that... I'm not the only one, of course. When those programs were instituted on a nationwide level, there are so many families, That wouldn't be where they are today without affirmative action."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"62d30fa451f7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8c73aabaccef0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That's why it's important. So that's why when my very, very blue state, California, passes a law that says that we can no longer consider race in university admissions, it's devastating, because I know that we have stopped a means by which kids today can achieve, can get out of the processes, the poverty that so frequently intersect with racial unprivilege. I know that we're stopping a means by which 25 years from now, somebody can stand in front of an audience and say, \"I am a beneficiary of affirmative action, because I am here in front of you.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"93d75526148e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9a3759dbe3550","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4e5066b38b69","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b39845cf5c4f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So what do you say to those people who say that positive discrimination of any kind isn't fair or just isn't needed anymore?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a6c858312014","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5cf167c41cbe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"33461bec5cb9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6fe9210e14760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That rests on a misperception of how institutions work to perpetuate historical racial disenfranchisement. When I look across this country and when I look at statistics describing this country, and when I am utterly convinced that there is nothing inherently wrong with people of color, yet people of color exist on the bottom of every single measure of social wellbeing, when people of color have shorter lifespans than white people, when people of color are incarcerated more than their white counterparts, when people of color can't survive pregnancy as frequently as their white counterparts, and so on and so forth, it suggests to me that there are institutional processes that are making it so that those things are true."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5ea16af4d569","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"03b7d020453c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And let's be clear, affirmative action is not like the saving grace. It's just one effort of what should be many that we are pursuing in order to undo some of those entrenched processes that reproduce historical disadvantage."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d77e4c60cf2e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c986b8088aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5a7f882a0f5c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6b745fb84b10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah, I mean, that's a hard thing to argue against when you look at those just different outcomes that everybody is experiencing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"31cf88880313","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e5fec1e40d60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"037f54cab98c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4ec9b35a3c30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah, to sort of tie back to our earlier conversation, there are also racial disparities in abortion rates, and so black people have higher rates of abortion. And why is that so? Is it because we really like to get abortions in the black community? No, it's because of disadvantage. And then when we actually try to pursue parenthood, when we try to actually give birth, we're three to four times more likely to die in the endeavor. And this, it's important to keep in mind, persists across income levels. So even though I have tenure and class privilege and own my home and I'm working on retirement, even though I have all those things, I'm still more likely to die during pregnancy than my white counterpart."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"71aa415cb4a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6068921db84c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So when somebody tells me discrimination today just doesn't exist, I'm like, \"How? What are you looking at?\" Because I'm looking at facts. I'm looking at statistics over here. So like I said, affirmative action is just one of many techniques we ought to be pursuing to try to make some of those things that I said just untrue."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dfd9b2f36348","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3578191508740","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bce3f6d0ff3c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f22d9513af510","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Even though this Supreme Court decision is focused on universities, we know that most well-paying corporate jobs require a college degree. And yes, there are some companies like Google and Chief that are beginning to remove that mandate. A diploma is still a prerequisite for many. So as you think about the consequences of if affirmative action is banned and the impact that it could really have on the racial wealth gap, that is another aspect of this for sure."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4a581b8b2d4b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d5173c8dd4bd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0828bf67f639","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"11288c3a8ddb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It's devastating. So it's devastating because of the reasons that you just mentioned, right? And also, it's not just any degree, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"523b7fc9fc15","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5f847a845200","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"77d8f0149d0d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aea6a469f3b50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3a1b0e3db401","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cf13373c24ea0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"778bf543604f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69e24118735a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The degrees from the most elite schools are the ones that are most coveted, right? I tell everybody in legal academia that everybody is hired from the same three schools. It's kind of like the Supreme Court today. All of them went to Harvard or Yale, and then there's Amy Coney Barrett who went to Notre Dame, right? So the same three schools. So the fact that Harvard is at the center of this litigation, where they're trying to essentially prevent Harvard from being race-aware during admissions, means that they're closing the door to a pathway that leads to upward mobility and power and privilege and status in our society."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9c619af084e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db0ae5378c7a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I usually hate making predictions, but it's so easy to make predictions with this particular Supreme Court. So in June 2023, I predict that the Supreme Court will hand down a decision that overrules Grutter v. Bollinger, which is the case that permits race consciousness in university admissions today. It will be devastating because it will close a pathway by which people of color can enter into the halls of power, essentially."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fbe2223de21d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ebefcb712d10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But also, the decision will not be narrow in that respect, inasmuch as what the Supreme Court is doing is interpreting the Constitution to prevent race consciousness generally. What the Supreme Court is doing is interpreting the Constitution to demand colorblindness. The demands of the Constitution have been interpreted as simultaneous to the demands of Title VII and our civil rights statutes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f32df094e08c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"414341f903350","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So the restriction or the prohibition on race consciousness when it comes to state actors will be applied to non-state actors. So that means that large corporations will also be prohibited from using race in their hiring decisions. So the decision in Students for Fair Admissions v. Harvard and UNC, it's just broad in the sense that all corporations that are bound by our civil rights laws will be prohibited from considering race in hiring decisions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7551606b4d27","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1e06137ff9ea0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4268e452f0d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"786bf70f580e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A lot of companies have, very much recently, made very public statements about wanting to invest in DEI and the importance of it in their companies, and this definitely could have the risk of pulling that back. Are there other areas outside of the hiring decision that you think could have impact?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d45f4e6d18a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8eb82d8f324c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"54a83eca8099","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"447b888dddee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Any effort that touches on race is now suspect in a post-Grutter world, once the Supreme Court hands down its decision. So essentially what the Supreme Court is holding is that to think about race is race discrimination. When Harvard thinks about race, when Harvard allows its admissions officers to consider race, they're engaging in race discrimination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f996be276f5c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b0dddecc3da0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So it's not a leap of logic to say that when a company has a workshop on race relations in the company, or implicit bias, there might even be a little special little workshop that's on, I don't know, Indigenous People's Day, it's not a leap of logic to say that those efforts, because the company is thinking about race and because it's inviting the employees to think about race, that the company is engaging in race discrimination and they're encouraging and inviting the employees to engage in race discrimination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bcbcd85d1c95","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0fd25ba27e290","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So again, what the Supreme Court is doing is mandating colorblindness. So that is a mandate on everybody to be colorblind. So that will severely hamper diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts in companies. It would incentivize them to play it safe and perhaps not to pursue some of the efforts that they otherwise would have pursued under less hostile Supreme Court precedent."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae101f1b0c21","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eccab1cb9a3e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"20749ba3a926","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0c788bf89860","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It definitely puts at risk a lot of progress that I think companies have made. But I also just wanted to note that we've seen just a lot of corporate activism against conservative legislation and judicial actions lately, including this case. What's your take on this, other people's words, so-called woke capitalism? And what do you actually think corporations' role should be in getting involved in promoting democracy and decisions like this?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a0702e125e33","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1b717e3a53b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"69127bee0220","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"709fe01f606c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My goodness. Great question. I remember when woke wasn't a pejorative term. It wasn't that long ago. I think that being aware of consequences is not woke at all. I think that advocating a position that would benefit your employees and therefore the company itself is not woke. It actually might just be protecting your bottom line. That's not woke at all."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"37dc1e0fd916","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"646667036f240","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I think I say all of that to say that companies have a role in this. Companies have a role in protecting democracy. I'm just thinking about silence is complicity at this particular socio political moment. And as we are witnessing states making it difficult for people to vote, as we are witnessing states forcing birth, as we are witnessing states sort of slide into fascism and to ease away from democracy, I think that it just strikes me as absurd to believe that the proper place of the corporation is to say nothing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2407d1a36d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08a2d8a0b2a00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I think that corporations ought to be involved in articulating how decisions will impact their company and how their decisions will impact their employees. How will forcing birth impact employees in Texas? How will the inability to consider a person's race or ethnicity impact the company?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"838b50cb22c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e914f6fd2670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Grutter v. Bollinger, this was the 2003 case in which the court upheld the constitutionality of race-based affirmative action. Many corporations, as well as military leaders, submitted amicus briefs, just trying to educate the court about what's at stake. It was compelling to that court. They cited those amicus briefs in support of a holding that the constitution permits race consciousness."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c56bf58da0d2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4be99edf254f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I do think that the words, the positions of corporations today might be compelling to some justices on the court. So I think it is kind of their duty to make those facts known."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c820bbe1bce7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4a0b29799c5d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e8a780b723a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1eab83c481400","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We had Ken Chenault on this podcast last season. He's actually one of our board members. And we asked him to grade the DEI progress of corporations and how much they were actually standing behind a lot of the words that they were starting to use. I will admit that he gave them an incomplete grade."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"76d3bcd961f4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69c0dd20c4450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3aac74a763eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c17103a132d70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Good. Fair enough."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a87138de8302","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"125302d0890f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5aadfab9d1e2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"910962284d520","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Fair enough. Yeah."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3cf10f7db9c9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8519f049ad720","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5f7783597c42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"54eadb9f560c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That means that it's not final."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"77a2d5fcad5e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8cf887720dda0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"009259feb26a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6c34c54d93af0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"They're still working on it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2051407ed0d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d090a636c020","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"57921ecbbe65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"43bc79f8d85b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Right."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f54994b4a6a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"79f9d43d7ca40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8406b7ea24d1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb8538171c7d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I'm curious how you feel. Are people actually standing up and doing things, or is there more that should be happening from companies?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cd845c5af05c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6e0da02f3de0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d31b3e7c0856","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6935f564dcc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I probably would also give companies' work an incomplete as well."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6900e1e4e252","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d7a2b759a7530","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6b4f03721bfa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4221e598c4dd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I gave you an easy answer there."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d674ad3dbe3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9722df39da9f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"81072a3ea3f9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"735ca8c5a8580","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I know. I know. Thank you for setting me up for that. I appreciate it. So I am a critical scholar. My orientation is to critique. So I think that we're kind of making it easy for corporations because we have to use the language of diversity. We can no longer use the language of justice. We can no longer use the language of racial inequality. So we're actually making it easier for corporations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"abc1b0a27a02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8551e07655c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And let me actually be clear that this is demanded by the Supreme Court precedent. Grutter said that trying to produce racial justice is impermissible. But trying to produce the educational benefits that come from a racially diverse student body, well, that's permissible. So now we have to use the language of diversity, because the Supreme Court said that if we use any other language, well, then we run into legal problems."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"561ecac92d80","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"284ca925eab90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I think it makes it easier for corporations to say, \"This is just all about diversity. This is just making sure that different viewpoints are represented. This is just making sure that our board rooms and our meeting rooms, people have interpersonal collisions and they can learn from one another.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"259c5103aeba","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1e4e4f3092e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And again, I don't doubt that those things are actually generated by racially diverse spaces in companies and so forth. But I wish, right? I really wish that we can talk about justice with a capital J. I really wish our efforts were honest and explicitly about undoing entrenched racial hierarchy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"318f6aee1acd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"90153033dee70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So all of that to say companies have an I right now, but it's kind of easy to get to the B pluses and the A minus and the A, because the bar is lower. All we're trying to do is just make things racially diverse, as opposed to produce justice with a capital J. So yeah, and I certainly don't want to dissuade companies from undertaking the efforts that they have been taking, but I wouldn't be me if I did not make claim how our conversations are impoverished because the Supreme Court has constrained the language that we use, and therefore, the efforts that we pursue."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c0fc54d00b5b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9215d03667960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b7ba69da6410","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bdb30033bafc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The name of this podcast is The New Rules of Business. So we always love to ask all of our guests the question of if you could write a new rule of business that would actually improve equity and diversity, or, to your point, justice, what would it be?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4e22169b626e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e222a35e35b70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7a803fff3834","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"464d35e1d8460","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Just one? Just one rule?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d536e2768959","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e59a90c1ebe10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b2417029316f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24b037d2bb910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I mean, if there was literally one rule, wouldn't we have made more progress on this?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"801451dac7f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bce81de7ef5d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"587ab4610988","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5458f302c91f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Right. It would be the rule that governs all the rules. One rule to rule them all. The rule would be something along the lines of think about how your company, the work that you do, the places where you hire from, do a study on how your company might contribute to or ameliorate racial inequality, sex inequality. Pick your inequality, right? Just do a deep dive into whether your company is contributing to the inequality or whether it is reducing it, or whether it's kind of ambivalent towards it. In some respects, it's contributing to it. In some respects, it's diminishing it. And allow that to inform the decisions that you make, right? Are there different things that you might do in order to not participate in these processes, these race neutral processes that contribute to racial inequality today?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9ad6d1bd4e0b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a705b6b3ffc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Might you start looking to hire from different places? Maybe don't get as excited as you used to get when you saw a Harvard MBA. Right? Just temper the excitement a little bit and start looking at other schools that might also produce amazing graduates, but you never give them time of day because, well, you got this Harvard MBA there, you got that Wharton over there, you got... Right? If we don't critique our present practices, then we'll never be curious about alternative practices that might produce the same or better outcomes while not reproducing the inequalities that just are so well-known that they're banalities today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ccd624cb8713","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"68513ddfcf6f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a6f9c0df1005","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bf72cb9942900","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah. Love that. Well, the final question that we also love to ask all guests is, what is the best piece of leadership advice that you've ever received? Or the worst. You can choose either one."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c4d65835ebc0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c64073f7d1520","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"953ab50140aa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7553fced3df90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The best piece of advice that I've received, I was very young and I was talking to a scholar I look up to. And I asked her, \"How do you deal with all the invitations that you get?\" And she was like, \"You've got to say no.\" So by saying no, guarding your time, protecting your peace, you show up better to the things that you have agreed to. And hopefully the things that you've agreed to are the things that you actually want to do. You're excited to get out of bed in the morning. The moments when you're kicking yourself for your poor decision-making skills, they are fewer and far between and you're just happier generally in life and in your occupation. So say no."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1df411b3f941","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"12628026a44c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4716f8b21327","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4f46fcf1bf450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Well, I have to imagine that you are on a lot of requests to come and talk right now, given so much happening with this ruling potentially coming out of the Supreme Court in 2023, with the Roe decision coming out. So I really thank you for saying yes to this conversation and joining us today, because it is just such an important topic and you're such a valuable voice in all of this. So thank you so much."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8c520e8344c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e35832d8e0050","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Khiara Bridges:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c5704bd95703","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e035bcf106dd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Well, thank you for inviting me. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to speak to your listeners."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"29145c341a99","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01092e0179af0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9560cb4ae5a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f44ef289e6ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That was Dr. Khiara Bridges, professor of law at UC Berkeley."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"03221fbe75ba","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"348f7931d1f80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a851dc3d0cce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2aa8c9c150dc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Well, that was a good one! I’m going to be quoting her all day. Like, she said that banning affirmative action would, quote, close the doors to the hallways of power."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"60d92b298523","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"46b132af82900","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"58487695d163","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c28d79fdd0730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"She really made the implications so clear. This is about so much more than higher ed. It’s about the big picture of actually achieving racial justice. It’s about long-term business strategy — not just DEI strategy. Equity benefits employees, therefore the company, and therefore the bottom line."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3a8ffa87380d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3ffff1b142ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"913d6b6238a7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3641d27eca9d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Absolutely. And I loved the way she challenged leaders to think about how easy they’ve had it, because of the language of DEI. They don’t have to talk about justice with a capital J — but they should."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2203b031da97","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4a3f6d918a070","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"37bf126e3d37","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"19917dbb22e30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Wow, you weren’t kidding about quoting her!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f40c6e01a0af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fcd1ba5f9bbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ff27220e701b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"084201082aac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yeah, yeah. But while she’s given us a lot to quote, and even more to think about, what’s most important is action. So start now. Critique your current practices. Assess where your business is really making a difference in terms of equity, and where you’ve made missteps —"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5ae12741f818","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0003a5467a940","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c5b92c9f1dc8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"846a3193f9f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Because we've all made them. And if you just accept the status quo, you’ll miss all the opportunities there are to achieve the same — or better — business outcomes without reproducing historic injustices."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cd6cf0f6fb87","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3798725d56610","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e8225dac440b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"135e4d702c760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Couldn’t have said it better myself, Carolyn. Although Khiara could. And did."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9b0a9b4ab984","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"718d8c6a44a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6303c1625d3e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c59c97acd8c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Absolutely. And with that, I’ll close us out. That’s all for this episode of the New Rules of Business."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"47d69f01bb73","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4b513d7e1aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2480c7b66c53","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e0e7261b5500","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Thanks Sharon Yi, Courtney Connley, Mercy Harper, Blaine Edens, at Chief, and to our production team, Pod People: Rachel King, Matt Sahv, Aimee Machado, Danielle Roth, Madison Lusby, Hannah Pederson, and Michael Aquino. Our music is by Colin Hatch. I’m Carolyn Childers."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8fddeb3dbb48","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"44d54f24b4bb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f2fe457e556e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cf556641e7090","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And I’m Lindsay Kaplan. Thanks for listening."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8cdd15b881ff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b181ddebb770","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lindsay Kaplan:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"89497d7fff11","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b34f68434f70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Okay, let's finish this up. Ready? Yeah. Yeah. But while she's given us a lot to quote and even more to think about. What?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ccf9b1f6b2d1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bc738dcb2c680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Carolyn Childers:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e5e9892dbf23","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"33fcb3cea7f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"(laughs) Yeah. Yeah. You sounded like you were about to break into song. Yeah. Yeah. 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But, when operating in a perma-remote or hybrid work environment, do DEI efforts fall short? And do individuals from marginalized communities feel more included or less included when working outside the office?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"38f90f085d38","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c4de3cff64d5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the latest episode of \"The New Rules of Business\" by Chief, Co-Founder Carolyn Childers talks to author, speaker, and DEI consultant Minda Harts about the importance of ensuring racially diverse employees aren't left behind as leaders think about the future of work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a07dba37b253","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d414c5fc7454","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"A lot of Black and brown women experience those day-to-day microaggressions and macroaggressions. So [while] being at home, they weren't experiencing it as much because it was really about the work,\" Harts says, while pointing to a study that shows more than 50% of Black employees felt like they didn't belong at their company until they worked from home. \"Now that we know this information, what do we need to be asking our Black women, or our brown women, or women who are over 50, or mothers or caretakers: What are the questions that we need to ask to make sure that they feel seen, heard, and supported returning back to [the office], whatever that might mean?\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f93ac5662495","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2be407ad3190","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Later in the episode, Harvard Business Professor Frances Frei and researcher Anne Morriss return to the podcast to talk to Carolyn and Lindsay about the benefits of remote work and how leaders can fairly measure performance to ensure all employees are accurately 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Though the demands of mentorship can be overwhelming to some, Alexandra Phillips, a Chief guide and executive coach, says that mentorship is something executive-level women should make time for because they stand to gain a lot — often times as much as the mentee — out of the opportunity."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"bcf2b3eccba4","_type":"link","href":"https://www.bizjournals.com/bizwomen/news/latest-news/2021/09/mckinsey-lean-in.html?page=all"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"477c804a5286","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a5e8d5959804","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"It really needs to be a two-way street [though],\" Phillips says. \"When someone takes on a mentee, they feel as though they want to give what they didn't have. 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To combat this, Shauwea Hamilton, Chief Member and executive director of a nonprofit organization in Brooklyn, NY, says she always sets boundaries and establishes a timeline for how long she plans to mentor someone."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"416339276816","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0693cc3eb1fa","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Mentorship is support provided for a specific end,\" she says. For some situations, such as a person preparing for an interview, Hamilton and the mentee meet two times to prepare for the interview, and then a follow-up only as needed. For those seeking more general career advice, Hamilton limits the meetings to once per month. In each relationship, she creates an off-ramp, so both sides are clear as to when the mentorship will end, and what those next steps will be."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"18624f18a29b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c7eea7ec0dbb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hamilton explains that after the formal mentorship period has ended, she continues to keep in touch with many of the individuals she's mentored, which allows for her network to continue to grow. But, she says there is no expectation for them to speak on a frequent basis, allowing her to move on and effectively mentor other individuals without feeling overwhelmed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a2be853c30ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ba4ad5bced9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Some people assume that a mentor is for the rest of your life,\" says Phillips. \"And some people gather mentees and never send them on their way.\" Phillips agrees with Hamilton about setting boundaries and time limits around mentor-mentee relationships so that they can be more purposeful. She suggests holding on to a mentor for six months, and then evaluating if that formal mentor-mentee relationship needs to be extended. She also advises executives to take on one to two mentees at a time. \"More than that, and it can be too much,\" she says."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"15b4e1a77bae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b7d6347d729","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Understand the Learning Opportunities of Being a Mentor"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"sectionHeader"},{"_key":"a2d57e4a22e2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"61eabec7f695","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Allowing yourself permission to learn from your mentee is something Phillips recommends, especially those who come from different generations. \"Too often we feel as though we have to know it all, but sometimes our mentees can provide razor-sharp clarity when they question existing paradigms,\" she says. \"Remember, doing things the way they have always been done is the death of innovation. So allow yourself to see things through the wonderful lens of someone who may have fewer years of experience.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8fd0da6043db","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"778036c2a163","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Deborah Kerson Bilek, executive director of a Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit, agrees. She says that her leadership position has given her a de facto role as a mentor, even when she hasn't sought to label the relationship as such, and it's allowed her to learn a lot from her younger colleagues."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"273593cd6822","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e3b13e781f4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"During a one-on-one conversation with a junior team member, she recalls being asked a personal growth question. \"She wanted to understand how she presents herself outwardly, compared to what I know about her,\" Kerson Bilek explained. \"I was really floored [she chose] to use this opportunity to seek that kind of reflection and feedback. It led to a really fascinating conversation, and I started thinking about that for myself.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"edd655f3f639","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d41a6926429a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At the time, Kerson Bilek was transitioning to her current position as executive director. She reached out to her own mentors, asking that same question, and came up with some specifics on ways she could excel in her new role."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a90d8dba2094","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"14a831725752","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"While some leaders may feel inclined to shy away from the responsibility of being a mentor, Hamilton emphasizes how rewarding the relationship can be when used effectively. 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As the first Black woman to create and executive produce a top 10 network series, and the first woman to create three hit shows with more than 100 episodes each, Rhimes has made more than a name for herself in Hollywood — she became the pinnacle. But, like other women who have experienced unparalleled success, the award-winning producer behind "},{"_key":"1a97b0c3ceb61","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Grey’s Anatomy"},{"_key":"1a97b0c3ceb62","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", "},{"_key":"1a97b0c3ceb63","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Scandal"},{"_key":"1a97b0c3ceb64","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", and Netflix’s "},{"_key":"1a97b0c3ceb65","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Bridgerton"},{"_key":"1a97b0c3ceb66","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", has had to cope with the feeling of loneliness at the top."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"20ab3de96566","_type":"quote","attribution":"Shonda Rhimes","body":"The isolation that comes with being everybody's boss is a very real thing","quoteImage":{"_type":"labelledImage","altText":"multitasking chair","asset":{"_ref":"image-c876d102477a4dcba55e31156eeca83c5856ca3e-411x260-png","_type":"reference"}},"quoteOptions":"pullQuoteImage"},{"_key":"7b42ba56344f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1cbc10a2105e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“The isolation that comes with being everybody's boss is a very real thing,” says Rhimes, who is the founder and CEO of the global media company Shondaland. “I think, however, it's not a devastating thing. I mean, you have to really learn to look at it for what it should be. Yes, it can feel lonely sometimes. But, you can go out and find other women and other people who share the experience of what it is to be a leader… Who know exactly what you're talking about when you talk about being in charge of everybody and what that feels like and how awkward it can feel sometimes to be the person in the room that everybody's looking to.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"15d9e993f6f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8aac0c7e5d010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Sitting down with Chief Member Dara Treseder, SVP, Global Head of Marketing, Comms & Membership at Peloton, Rhimes spoke about the tradeoffs that have come with her success as a working mother, and why she wants all women to not only know their power, but own it as leaders."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"98fbe6be0c03","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b87d6b750a40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the Secret to Developing a Good Idea"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading1"},{"_key":"9c43a41ee0a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c9c1efe5fa3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4e4379f86928","_type":"floatedImage"},{"_key":"f400c3a31126","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"54e5d19f0f020","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“You know, for me, a lot of it is how much does something stick with me? I have a lot of little ideas that sound interesting. But, the things that stick with me are the ones that I wake up in the middle of the night thinking about, or I wake up in the morning and I have to write down some notes. Or, once you tell an idea to somebody, you can tell if it's good or bad by how well you tell it, in a weird way. Like how well you felt telling it. So once I've told it to somebody and it sort of still sticks with me, I know that I have something worth writing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"16146e5fd95e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b939c5ef05480","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“Also, you know, the dirty little secret of writing is that nobody loves writing. I don't know anybody who loves writing while they're writing. We all love "},{"_key":"b939c5ef05481","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"having written"},{"_key":"b939c5ef05482","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". So the key is to have an idea you love and then to just do the work. Like do the work and force yourself through the harder parts, the parts where you're not feeling so inspired. Get those pages out every single day so that once you're done with the script, you feel amazing.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"846f7a5f8124","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01346f7703de0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On Growing Shondaland"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading2"},{"_key":"db733192d2ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b2c864d1625f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“At first, it was just me and my producing partner Betsy Beers. And then it grew. And now, that company is, I want to say there's close to 50 of us now. So it's really grown and we have a digital division. We have a podcast division. We have partnerships that we do with people… We have all of these things and we're growing at this exponential rate. And part of what you want to do is to make sure that everybody who comes in still feels the coziness of what it was like when there were only four of us or five of us. You want to make sure that everybody feels that sort of investment, that sort of buy-in. I like it when people come and they stay for a long time. You know, there are some people who've been there from the very beginning.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1c74f831373d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"caaeac346bd50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On Saying “No” — Without Apology"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading3"},{"_key":"a4dc45dc1080","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8db7502d81640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“I realized that I was just as bad at saying ‘no’ as I was at saying ‘yes.’ You know, we're all built to please. We never want anybody to think "},{"_key":"8db7502d81641","_type":"span","marks":["90dab3711a10"],"text":"we are not lovely and kind"},{"_key":"8db7502d81642","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", and all of these things. So, it feels harsh to say no and then not give 55 reasons why. The whole idea that no is a complete sentence is a very hard thing for most of us. So you find yourself saying, "},{"_key":"8db7502d81643","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"No, I can't do that because of this and because of this and because of this and because of this"},{"_key":"8db7502d81644","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", and suddenly it's very easy to get talked into saying yes because people come up with reasons why those becauses don't matter. And really what you're trying to do is set your boundary. When you're saying no to something, you're setting your boundary. You should not be doing things that you don't want to do, or that you feel manipulated into doing or feel uncomfortable doing, or that are sort of charged to make somebody else feel good but not you."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"90dab3711a10","_type":"link","href":"https://chief.com/articles/alicia-menendez-likeability-trap-the-new-rules-of-business-podcast"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d71b8d774c25","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e7d919ecbba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“And I'm not saying that you don't do things for other people, obviously. But, understanding that you can say, "},{"_key":"3e7d919ecbba1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"No, I'm not able to do that"},{"_key":"3e7d919ecbba2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", and have that be a complete sentence and not feel like you have to add to it or apologize for it is very important. And it took a long time for me to learn how to do it.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f6b14acdbb42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4b456989673c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the Difference Between Knowing Your Power and Owning It"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading4"},{"_key":"585e61d33199","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f4c2f8ea9bc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“You know, I think it starts with the idea that power is not power if you don't know you have it. There was a lot of time during my career when I had power and I don't even think I realized I had power… So when you find out, when you start to realize, like, "},{"_key":"3f4c2f8ea9bc1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Maybe I have some power here"},{"_key":"3f4c2f8ea9bc2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", that's great. But it's also terrifying [because it’s like] "},{"_key":"3f4c2f8ea9bc3","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"How am I going to wield this power? How am I going to use it to get what I want? How am I going to make it work for me and my company and my people?"},{"_key":"3f4c2f8ea9bc4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The moment you start to really accept the idea, not just that you have power, but that you deserve the power you have, that's the moment you start to own it. It's a very hard thing for women I've noticed. And I talked to a lot of women about this. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a powerful woman. And yet, somehow we've all been raised to believe that we are supposed to make other people feel more comfortable with their own power than we are with our own. We make ourselves smaller to make other people feel bigger."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"644b2319f32a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fe237ce9d9260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“We all think like, "},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9261","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Oh, I don't want them to think I'm difficult"},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9262","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". Or, "},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9263","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"I don't want them to think I'm angry"},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9264","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". Or, "},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9265","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"I don't want them to think I'm this or that"},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9266","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". It's not about that. When you are comfortable in your power, when you decide, "},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9267","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Okay, this power does belong to me and I can own it"},{"_key":"fe237ce9d9268","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", it's not about wielding it or treating anybody a certain way. It's just about knowing your worth.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"80baf9652db7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2f71659d56640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the Importance of Delegating"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading3"},{"_key":"533f8a7958f7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“When you're afraid, when you're not sure, you are hanging onto everything and trying to do it all yourself because if somebody messes up, Oh my God. As opposed to, "},{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc81","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"I'm comfortable. I know what I'm doing. I can do this"},{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc82","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". And a good leader finds people and then entrusts them to do their job. That changed my life in a huge way. Like somebody would come to me and say, "},{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc83","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Well, what do you want me to do?"},{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc84","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" And I would say, "},{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc85","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Well, it's your job? Do it and let me know what happens."},{"_key":"5f9f56bc7dc86","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" First of all, those people began to feel so empowered and got really excited and felt true ownership of their job. But second, my life changed because my level of control and worry and the amount of time I spent trying to do work that I didn't need to do was just brought down to a halt, which was amazing.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8610aebaa9ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"447262dad7990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On Debunking the Myth of Work-Life Balance"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading3"},{"_key":"c05af4a27885","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"129c0a3901380","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“I think we all remember that period of time where, if you were a woman in any job, that was the question they were asking you, "},{"_key":"129c0a3901381","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"How do you have "},{"_key":"129c0a3901382","_type":"span","marks":["em","5918f5a1d6d9"],"text":"work-life balance"},{"_key":"129c0a3901383","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"?"},{"_key":"129c0a3901384","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" That question used to drive me crazy. And I used to say, "},{"_key":"129c0a3901385","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Well, Chuck Lorre has three shows. What does he say when you ask him that question?"},{"_key":"129c0a3901386","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" And nobody knew what to say to that because Chuck was a guy, he's not supposed to have work-life balance. But the reality of it is the idea that we're all supposed to live in this sort of perfect little bubble where we've got it all figured. It’s one of the cruelest myths I feel like we've put out there for women. And I was very interested in not doing it because I never felt that way. And it wasn't until people started asking me the question that I really realized why it bothered me so much. It is that thing of, "},{"_key":"129c0a3901387","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"If I am succeeding in one area of my life, I do feel like I'm failing in another and that's okay"},{"_key":"129c0a3901388","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". You know, as a mother I can be either at my child's science fair, or I can be at Sandra Oh's very last day of work on "},{"_key":"129c0a3901389","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Grey's Anatomy"},{"_key":"129c0a39013810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". I can go to England and watch them film scenes of "},{"_key":"129c0a39013811","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Bridgerton"},{"_key":"129c0a39013812","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", or I can stay here and take my kids to school on their very first day. Those are choices that you make and those choices are okay. Like it's okay to feel like you're not giving 100% to everything.”"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"5918f5a1d6d9","_type":"link","href":"https://chief.com/articles/work-life-balance-pandemic"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bd8f6f7f500e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8b42fa5414b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On Writing "},{"_key":"e8b42fa5414b1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Grey’s Anatomy"},{"_key":"e8b42fa5414b2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" With a Newborn"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading3"},{"_key":"fbc4e2f7c102","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0450bd029d8f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I became a mother and had a script due for a movie like three weeks later. And then with a brand new baby strapped to my chest, I wrote the pilot for "},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Grey's Anatomy"},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". So, "},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f3","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Grey's Anatomy"},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" and my daughter are the same age. That's what happened because I thought, "},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f5","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Hey, I'll write a television show. "},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And then that show turned out to be this big, giant job. So I had to find ways to deal with the fact that I was suddenly a mother with a huge job that I had never had before at the same time. So I brought my kid to work as much as I possibly could. And I did all the things I possibly could, but I definitely feel like "},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f7","_type":"span","marks":["3f43a81d3fbc"],"text":"there were trade-offs"},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" that I would not have made had I had more experience in the job and more leverage in my job or more experience as a mother and more of a sense of who I was as a mother. I say that because I think it's important for women to understand and to not look at my life and go, "},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f9","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Oh, it's so simple."},{"_key":"0450bd029d8f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" No, I made tons of mistakes. And it was 10 years before I felt like I could have a second kid. That's how hard the job was.”"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"3f43a81d3fbc","_type":"link","href":"https://chief.com/articles/balancing-motherhood-career"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"eccf3a0ca663","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"733a789bbef40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the Pandemic Changing Her Approach to Workplace Culture"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"heading3"},{"_key":"7548214e09a4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"707675e68e170","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“I think I thought, "},{"_key":"707675e68e171","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"We have playrooms, we have nursing spaces for mothers, and anybody can bring their kid to work if they want to"},{"_key":"707675e68e172","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". And I thought like we had done it all. But really what was happening was that people were both trying to mother and work at the same time. You're bringing your kid to work, but you were still working and it wasn't the same thing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a508df6071a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1d4bc046ddc90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"“The pandemic really changed that because suddenly we all had to go home. We didn't have a choice. And what I realized was the power for so many people of being able to work from home. They were getting as much work done. They were just as efficient, and sometimes they were more efficient. And, they were far happier because the things that they were worried about at home were no longer things that were over there that they were trying to squeeze into their work life. Now it was, you do your work as you do your work and maybe you stop at 3:00pm to pick up your kids and make dinner for your kids and hang out with your kids for three hours. And maybe you pick work up later, if that's a thing for you. Or you don't pick it up later because you got it all done earlier. I think that was the biggest lesson for me was realizing that we could find a way to let people work how they needed to work and when they needed to work.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"13ceae39d51a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad23cea1d561","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1ae4f2167ece","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b30f5fe00915","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"description":"Shonda Rhimes on the tradeoffs that have come with her success as a working mother, and why she wants all women to know their power, and own it as leaders.","heroBackgroundColor":{"title":"Dark Green","value":"#1E320B"},"heroImage":{"_type":"labelledImage","altText":"Photo of Shonda Rhimes","asset":{"_ref":"image-ee06ba6738622f6f7902b44117a8572a66569843-3740x2016-jpg","_type":"reference"},"attribution":"Photo Credit: Shonda Rhimes"},"metaTitle":"Shonda Rhimes Believes Work-Life Balance Is ‘The Cruelest Myth’","publishDate":"2023-01-25","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"why-shonda-rhimes-believes-work-life-balance-is-the-cruelest-myth-for-women"},"summary":"Sitting down with Chief Member Dara Treseder, SVP, Global Head of Marketing, Comms & Membership at Peloton, Shonda Rhimes spoke about the tradeoffs that have come with her success as a working mother, and why she wants all women to not only know their power, but own it as leaders.","supportingContent":[{"_key":"45747c0bd9a1","_type":"nextUpFeatured","article":{"_ref":"6898e932-2c69-4469-8d9d-f2767789bb2b","_type":"reference"},"cta":"Read More","heading":"Next Up"}],"title":"Work-Like ","id":"-688d93a1-0236-5e92-bc53-6c5b2f07421e","children":[],"parent":null},"thirdArticle":{"_id":"a00f8fbb-3434-4fc2-9f53-8bb8e1dd3bf2","_type":"editorial","_rev":"jibIAumM21y0MZAVVwoAmf","_createdAt":"2022-12-19T11:38:26Z","_updatedAt":"2023-01-24T20:39:47Z","articleAuthor":{"_ref":"a5a6ea15-0332-483a-ae2e-c10f37380ad3","_type":"reference"},"article_related_series":{"_ref":"-0c3fffb9-83bd-5690-ad46-6fb08f823e65","_type":"reference"},"byline":"QA Author","content":[{"_key":"ef26faff8cc3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a375fce5149c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The giving season is not only a chance to show love and appreciation, it’s also an opportunity to purchase with purpose."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3d0cce2c2483","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad7b4f2c67be0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When shopping with a women-owned company, not only are you helping to improve women’s economic opportunities, but you are also helping to improve the overall economy. 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